TourGuide has been back online for 4 days which was about the same time we released our new addon, and yet after all the controversy we didn’t hear any official announcement from Zygor or Tekkub, it is as if the issue is being “swept under the rug” so we can all forget it ever happened.
After 3 weeks of on going lawyer discussions I now feel comfortable to disclose the information below.
UltimateWoWGuide.com wish to take a stand that we were within our rights to distribute TourGuide until 18th Feb 2010, any other public statements stating otherwise is false and defamatory against our business for the following reasons.
1. On 7th January 2009 Tekkub gave me permission in writing to specifically sell TourGuide with my guides commercially (I chose those words for a purpose) with the only condition to not sell TourGuide ‘alone’. refer to this screenshot of Tekkub’s permission in writing,
This proves that we are within our rights to distribute TourGuide for commercial use and this also proves that Tekkub’s statements on his website and statement made by Zygor that I never had Tekkub permission to sell, or distribute the TourGuide addon is clearly false and there is an alterior motive as to why they would say that.
2. We also note that Tekkub had published the source code of TourGuide on http://www.github.com. One of the terms and conditions of opening an account with GitHub.com is that by setting the user’s repositories to be viewed publicly, the user agrees to allow others to use that user’s repositories to take a copy of source codes from software programs and develop it independently of that software (‘forking’). A copy of the terms and conditions for GitHub.com can be found at http://help.github.com/terms/.
Tekkub claimed that by “setting a repo to be viewed publicly is like packaging an addon in plaintext files… anyone can view it because there is no mechanism available to prevent them from doing so.”
However this statement is incorrect GitHub.com does have an option to set your repositories as private which is recommended by GitHub if you software proprietary. It is also clearly stated on GitHub and if you chose your repositories to be viewed by anyone (refer to screenshot below), you also declare that is an open source project (see section 1.) And the term forking is commonly known to the programming community here.
I forked Tekkub’s TourGuide repo from github to my own github account in January 2009. If “forking” wasn’t allowed and if TourGuide is not “open source”, the wrong message is clearly sent to the public by hosting it on as a public repositories without any form of license. There are options in GitHub to protect your software to which Tekkub chose not to use.
3. On 3 April 2009 Tekkub was upset regarding the “forking” of TourGuide, I took action with removal of the public link and clearly stated I was still distributing it in my members area. I offered a solution such as licensing, and modification of TourGuide, these options were a possibility and I was under the understanding that these options were being considered.
We complied by removing the link and suggesting a solution and we were still within our rights to continue distributing as we still have permission, if our final email was unacceptable to Tekkub, then he should clearly state it. Which he didn’t and he admitted “chose not to pursue it“.
4. On 12 December 2009 Tekkub continued to take our donations, and also help us further in modifying by providing a code for TourGuide for our distribution in Dec 09.
This proves that there was no problem with us modifying and distributing the guide.
5. Tekkub also encouraged the renaming of TourGuide “In short, you f*ck with it, find a new name for it.” which was the issue that he had with us.
This further proves that Tekkub is not opposed to people modifying and distributing TourGuide.
6. Even after Zygor’s acquisition of TourGuide, Tekkub is not opposed to wow-pro distributing TourGuide but completely against to what we have done when it is the same thing. Arguments that this is because wow-pro is not a commercial or non profit website is invalid, the large amount of free traffic that wow-pro received is helped by distributing tourguide which adds to their profit of banner advertising.
Again this further proves Tekkub is not opposed to people modifying and distributing TourGuide for commercial use.
Final comment on Tekkub
Our donation to Tekkub was only $500 and I admit it was far from enough, but the fact remains that it was a donation, something we didn’t have to give and our donation made up almost 50% of money that Tekkub received for the development of TourGuide as a public addon. We were ready to take it to the next level with licensing long before Zygor however Tekkub showed no interest.
On January 2010 I even contacted Tekkub to offer him a monthly sponsorship program to continue his development for TourGuide as a free addon for everyone to use. Tekkub never responded because obviously it was too late as he already sold it to Zygor.
As far as I know we were Tekkub’s #1 supporter, over the year we have also contributed to TourGuide by suggesting features and submitting bugs. I don’t think it was fair for me and others who have donated and contributed in anyway for the public project of TourGuide only to be shut out completely and then accused of copyright infringement in public.
I don’t know why Tekkub would state incorrect statements against us, I did contact Tekkub to try to get more closure, however he simply states he does not have the liberty to comment. I have also forwarded him this statement for him to correct or comment before posting publicly on this blog, he didn’t reply.
Zygor Intention To File a $150,000 Lawsuit Against UltimateWoWGuide
1. On 18th Feb 2010, after Tekkub’s confirmation of Zygor’s acquisition of TourGuide on his website tekkub.net, we promptly stopped selling our leveling guide and complied with Zygor’s demands, as this was the only proof that we found that Zygor have acquired the rights to TourGuide.
2. On 22nd Feb 2010, I received a follow up letter from a Lawyer representing Zygor Guides LLC of their intention to file a lawsuit for $150,000 per infringed work and attorney’s fees.
To summarize, they state that.
- I have infringed their copyright of TourGuide for the period of 12 Dec 2009 to 2 Feb 2010 (Period of just over 2 months)
- I must pay $75,000 by 31 March 2010, and Zygor guides will agree not to bring the lawsuit against me.
- I must agree to forever cease the use of TourGuide in anyway.
3. On 24th Feb 2010, Zygor filed DMCA claim against all of our YouTube videos. Videos that we created ourselves 100%, even the free how to do dailies videos that we put out, refer to picture below. The alleged infringing material consist of an Blizzard’s icon image and quest name to which probably made up less than 1% of the total image.
4. On 5th Mar 2010 I responded with a letter from my lawyer stating that
- We received the infringement notice prematurely and have already ceased distribution despite having permission from the original author.
- We notified them that we will not pay $75,000 as it was unjustified and without merit.
- We requested them to drop the matter because no copyright infringement was made against Zygor Guides LLC and we had already complied by removing traces of TourGuide from our server.
5. On 12th Mar 2010 Zygor’s Lawyer replied with additional demands instead.
- Zygor’s lawyer finally provided proof of contract agreement between Zygor and Tekkub.
- Zygor demanded that I agree to permanently cease and desist from reproducing, distributing, displaying and selling the TourGuide software or anything substantially similar to it. (meaning I must agree to never make / sell / give away any in-game leveling guide in any form ever again)
- Zygor would reconsider the payment of $75,000 if we provided them with our full sales stats.
- Zygor is open to alternative settlement if I contact him directly via email, if we don’t contact them to settle then they expect a check of $75,000 by 31 March 2010.
6. We sent the follow up letter on 25th Mar 2010, stating further evidence that we were within our rights to distribute TourGuide prior 18th Feb 2010.
Final Comments on Zygor
From the information I have, Zygor obtain the rights to tourguide in 18th December (incorrectly stated as November in the screen shot below) and intentionally not notify dugiguides.com or anybody else. So they can wait for 2 months to gain some sort of legal grounds for suing dugiguides.com and maybe others for 2 months worth of loss of income (refer to screenshot below)
Our current views remains that Zygor purpose of acquiring TourGuide is an intentional attempt to harm our Business and our affiliates incomes to force them to switch. Also an attempt to obtain $75,000 from dugiguides.com
I would like to comment futher however I prefer to stick to facts that I can back up with evidence. The purpose of this post for you to know the facts and hopefully regain your confidence with dugiguides.com
I look forward to continue developing our own guides and addon and simply minding our own business.
– Dugi
58 replies to "Zygor Guides Review Scam Dugi $150,000 Lawsuit"
It’s Zygor that is beating a dead horse. Zygor bought the rights to software published in open source! Any future, modified versions are protected, but the original, open source version is still freely usable to anyone retaining a copy. The only reason to pursue this is to strong-arm the competition!
Take into account the misinformation and confusion, contradictory e-mails and communications, monetary donations for open source development, and late notification and Zygor does not have a case! Put Tekkub on the stand and watch him squirm as he tries to explain the various communications between parties – a good lawyer will eat him for lunch and use his bones for a toothpick.
Zygor is hoping the competition will lay down under the pressure and slowly disappear. Quit letting the corporate gorilla push you around and bite back! Show some teeth!! Never pay (admission) and do have your lawyer vigorously return fire. Slap a counter suit on them so fast their heads will spin! If they want to take the complaint to court, tell them **** yes and bring it on!
Sit back and continue development on your product.
I like the “turtle up” comment below. Probably a lot better advice. 🙂
Dugi,
Unleash the hounds of ****. I do not know if you have considered a counter-suit, I am not a lawyer, I just play one in WoW.
I enjoy your guides, I support your guides, I am a customer of Joanne (way back when 60 was the cap). I am a supporter of WoW-Pro as well.
I believe your opinion of Zygors intentions is accurate.
Keep fighting the good fight.
-Lee
Hello Dugi,
I bought your Ultimate WoW Guide as soon as you released it, because it worked so well with WoW and my other UI mods. I was amongst the first few hundred to purchase the original. and I have loved it ever since. I have now finished the upgrade to the new V4 guide, and although some of it does “feel” the same as the original it is clearly a different guide altogether. I say BRAVO to you and your development team for all the the hundreds of hours you have put into this to make it the BEST guide on the market period. I looked at a trial version of Zygor’s guide which I immediately saw was far below par with your guide. I promplty deleted it and continued to hapoly use “Dugi’s Guide” (affectionately) I want to add here that even before you droped the original “Tourguide” OPEN SOURCE code AFTER you were notified that someone had purchased the rights to it (how is that possible?) Dugi’s Guide was the better guide. personally I think Zygor should pit his guide to yours and see what happens….oh wait he already knows….it is an inferior product and can’t hold a candle you yours. That is why is is trying to sue you is simply because he and his team can’t hold a candle to what you and your team have produced. I am now as from the beginning a Staunch supporter and promoter of your guide. All you have to do is ask my Guild mates lol. they are all amazed at my leveling speed and my “magical” ability to make gold lol. I keep telling them to buy your guide and then they can be “magical” too. Finally….Zygor. stop sniveling and whining step up to the plate and develop your own guide that workes as well as Dugi’s. I respectfully submit that you can not and that is why you are trying to “STEAL” Dugi’s Guide. My father always used to tell me “Put up or shut up” never in my entire life have those sords souned so sweet. Keep up the good work Dugi and team and I will be standing here cheering you on all the way to victory.
Respectfully
Richard Manning aka
Amarad
And yeah that was a bit harsh. Depending on the license that was released they may have no ground. There are only a few open source licenses that cannot be retroactively revoked. So hopefully you’ll be OK.
Take some heart that a company that owned UNIX tried to sue every LINUX user on the planet in a similar kind of fashion to what is happening to you. They lost remarkably and have been shunned ever since:
Dugi,
I am going to agree with Ryan on this one. He was a bit harsh, but in reality, Miranda applies. American Supreme court case that basically says that anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
Once this gets settled, send us all a summary. Lawyers are good at defending you, and the more words you publish, the more words they have to defend.
The best thing you can do to protect yourself (And more importantly your family) is to stop speaking about the matter until it is settled. It doesn’t matter that you and your lawyer think you are right unless and until a judge/jury agrees with you.
Love your guide, keep up the good work, just keep your head down.
V/R
What license a piece of software is released as depends on two things:
a) whether a license was specified
or
b) if nothing was specified, then it would be under the implicit copyright laws of the authors country (I think)
Straight off, if no license was specified then the software authors is massively amateur. In Australia, released work with no license retains copyright of the author I believe, if that’s the case they can withdraw the copyright.
So you do need to figure this **** out by seeing a lawyer.
If Zygor is threatening you directly (i.e. not through a legal counsel) then he’s probably full of ****. If he has lawyers contacting you, you better get a laywer yourself. Also, posting **** like this isn’t productive if you actually go to court.
If he is committed to taking you to court it will cost him a bucketload of money. So it wont happen unless they’re either complete idiots with lots of money or actually right.
All this stinks of is huge incompetence of all involved, and it speaks hugely of the unprofessional nature of the wow guide businesses.
I bought guides from you Dugi and all I get from you since is bullshit emails about your idiot problems. Go and spend some real money on lawyers and sort this out, and stop posting about it publically, coz it’ll come back and bite you in the ****.
Good luck.
we have already have good lawyer representing us and we’re not afraid to speak out.
Just on a side note, Dugi, maybe you might want to also look at designing your own Talent Guide Add-on as Talented could be the next add-on the Zygor targets for purchase to try and sabotage your business. Okay I said I wasn’t going to say anything negative about him, but I just couldn’t resist.
Hi Dugi, you keep at it mate, as an affiliate of your site and zygors, i have dropped my zygor promotion from this point onwards, as a sign of my disgust at their actions.
We should all be helping each other in this business and not trying to compete via ***** tricks.
All the best
Ian
I don’t want to say anything bad about Zygor, as I don’t want to fuel the flame war.
I will say, I purchased his guides back when Wrath of the Lich King came out, didn’t like them, and got a refund.
I knew full well for a long time that Dugi’s Viewer was a modified version of the freeware add-on TourGuide, and yet had no problems purchasing his guides.
I personally can not understand how Zygor can claim for lost income from December 2009 when TourGuide was still available on GitHub and WoWInterface.com until the statement was made that it had been sold. He can no claim that Dugi’s Guides specifically took away his income when people were downloading it for free from various other sites.
Anyways, just my 2 cents worth. Keep up with the good work on the new add-on, it looks to be going well so far.
Ya, doesn’t it have to be public knowledge to be able to file a lawsuit. The dates that zygor is accusing you of infringement on had absolutely NO publication of the fact that he had bought out TourGuide. My friends and I back you and think that zygor’s lawsuit won’t be able to hold up in Court.
Thanks for all the great guides Dugi 😀
Dugi,
I’m behind you all the way!!!!!!!! Your guides are fantastic, your service is second to none, and reading both sides of this argument, you come across as the most professional in your responses and your attempts to do the right thing. At least you haven’t been slinging mud like the other guy has. Good luck mate and I hope that rat gets what he deserves in the end
I will keep my comments though verbose to the point. I have owned several guides out there, though none of them really helped unless I wanted to roll a fresh toon, as none keep track of quest completed on already leveling toons.
But honestly, Tekkubs software was publicly available as open source as Dugi mentioned above. How does one legally buy the rights to an open source program to begin with? Is that idea even legally supported.
The reason I say this is , for example, anyone can put together and sell a distribution of Linux. If I go to the source site and download the kernal code, compile my own version and sell it, The author has have no ground to sue me.
But can Linus Torvalds now sell the rights to one person and allow that purchaser to sue all distributors of Linux.
No because the kernal WAS open source, therefore it cannot have its rights sold, unless a newer version is created for the purchaser and they recieve exclusive rights to THAT program version and subsequent ones thereafter.
The only way ( in the U.S.) that Zygor would have any legal grounds is only if Tekkub stopped developing the code, Removed all new versions of the code from the open source site. Then sold a new revised code specifically to the zygor.
They could contractually own the rights to that revised copy and all further editions but the original addon’s code, before the exclusive version would still be legal to use due to the open source it was at the time.
IE: Dugi as long as you were using a copy of tourguide from before it was pulled from open source, and had been revised as a straight for sale commercially licensed , neither party has a legal leg to stand on as far as a lawsuit.
If you pulled the hypothetical revised addon out of Zygors guide and then put it in yours.. that would legal grounds to sue.
Also is Zygor based in New Zealand?
Does his legal actions even effect you under your nations laws?
To sum up my opinion and the 2 cents it’s worth..
Zygor is an jerk. He will never see a single cent from me or my guildies ever again( guild of 250 members).
And it’s quite possible seeing as there was no international copywrite on the Tourguide, being open source, at the time you produced your guide, and seeing as how you are a New Zealander, and his claims may not even be legal in your homeland, I think he has no case at all.
good luck Dugi..
oh and by the way your guides were always better than zygors rickety buggy ****.At least your co-ordinates were correct and not 200 yards off in some cases..
Beth
well with enough money anything is possible, and we know roughly how much Zygor is worth (a lot more that us thats for sure) so we don’t take their threat lightly.
Typical Lawyer stuf here, scaring tactics and attempts to make you admit something. Suppose you would pay this ‘offer’ of $75.000, you would legally weaken your position because the Zygor lawyers would use this as an indirect confession/admittance of an infringement on Zygor’s ‘rights’.
Furthermore, it’s not totally legal for Zygor’s lawyers to make you such an offer because it sounds a lot like extortion. Your lawyer could file a complaint with the authorities against Zygor for this. Maybe something worth considering when they keep pushing like this.
Anyway. I love the work you’ve done so far and in the past. You have a large support base here so don’t give up.
Greets from Europe
Too many lawyers in this world. We seriously need to get rid of them all…
Look like Zygor really is targeting you! But I got to say that the new addon you release a few days ago looks and act a lot like the old one… But you are in your good right here.
All this happening like you did **** Zygor off with fighting him back with his own marketing tactics! Talking About the video and some compare data on your site.
Zygor trying to fight you on both fronts shutting down your site when he just happen to release 2 new products that you offer for years…. you known what maybe its time too counter sue…. he in one way is stealing your ideas…
Ya, my friend has been keeping me up to date on the devious gnome’s (Zygor’s) actions. and he just released a “NEW” dailies and events guide and also a “NEW” gold making guide too. You should counter-sue because he is stealing your guides/ideas. In my own logic you are in the right and the gnome is a little bugger that needs to just shut up. And my friend that was using zygo’s guides has switched over. He says yours are FAR better in comparison. And I also think yours are the best.
I have seen alot of this lawyer BS and it’s about scaring people to obey. Just cut all lines and contact with such people. You did right about stopping all links and stopping selling what zygor bought. They can’t ask for more. As far goes about the sevice you and friends are making, nobody else can reach that level, so continue on that.
Before I started buying ur guides, I was also a zygor customer. It disgusts me that they are trying to kock you out of buisness. I agree that this is complete bs. Out of all the companies I have bought wow guides from, you guys are the only ones to show exceptional customer service. You guys are the best that are out there and zygor should be the ones to go out of buisness. You got my support all the way. Keep your head up and you’ll get through this.
Dugi,
I have been a user of your guides for over a year, during that time you have provided outstanding support if I ever had a question. I will continue to use your guide, and I highly recommend it to my friends.
This lawsuit is just another way for those on the bottom attempt to bring down the competition. You have my full support.
I purchased your full package yesterday and that was after being quite impressed with Zygors guides and other stuff..
The reason I purchased yours instead was because I want no part of a person or company who are employing what I consider ***** tactics which is what I believe zygor is doing.
Most players like me just want to play the game and have fun..not get involved in stupid games like Zygor is playing.
Keep your head up.
I’m a Zygor guide owner and ashamed to be one. I’m totally tired of Zygor’s attempts to squash the competition. I’m done with Zygor and all that junk they’re pulling! Zygor is not getting another F-ING penny from me.
Zygor can go to **** for all i care.. Extortion is BS …
and just because Zygor has been on the low end of sales with leveling guides in he last few years doesn’t mean that because he finds a way to buy rights and wait until the opportune time to cash in on some type of sales loss… idk.. he jst has NO RIGHT
Dugi, the fact that Zygor is offering you 75 large to drop lawsuit is extortion. You had no knowledge of the acquistion from either party in written or verbal. They have no case against you.